1- __ You: ( By, “modern Jews”, I simply mean, people alive today who identify as Jews. )
__ Me: What does it mean? We don’t say, ‘modern Muslims, modern Christians’, do we? Why can’t you simply say, ‘Jews’?
__ You: – I was simply using the phrase, ‘modern Jews’, to distinguish from, ‘ancient Jews’. Jews now; Jews then. If you feel that ‘modern’, is too loaded a word, I can use the phrase, ‘Jews-of-today’, instead.
__ Me: You can’t you simply say ‘Ahkenazi Jews” since the discussion is almost in its entirety about them and also since they make ip 90-95% of world Jewry?
2- __ You: (There could be – Could it possibly – it’s possible – it seems more probable – there must have been)
__ Me: Why the need to keep guessing? Why can’t you just give it a rest that no Ashkenazi is descended from any other source but Europe. Why is it that European Jews feel so ashamed to admit any ancestry to Europe? You need to get the notion of ‘dispersal’ out of your mind. The Yemeni Jew is Yemeni and has zero connection to the German Jew. And the German Jew is German and has no genetic connection to the Nigerian Jew.
__ You: – I get that you’re ideologically committed to the idea that Ashkenazi Jews have no genetic connection to ancient dwellers in Palestine. My refusal to agree with that, isn’t ideological, but rational. I know that I’m not scientifically qualified to evaluate that genetic evidence. I’m sorry to disappoint you in this regard, but I just don’t know what the truth is, here. Furthermore, I really don’t care; because I don’t believe it makes any difference. No group-of-today has any right to steal the land and property of people living where some ancestors lived thousands of years ago.
__ Me: You are clinging to this silly and absurd notion that white Europeans originate from Palestine. Genetic science has spoken when it identified 40 genetic diseases that are suffered by the Ashkenazis and not by Arab or any other Jews. Tests were performed of particular genetic disease that are very common among the Ashenazis to determine if these disease also impacted Arab Jews. The results were that the Arab Jews suffer at a rate equal to the general population. For example,the carrier rate for Tay-Sacs disease among the Ashenazi is 1/30 vs. 1/300 for Arab Jews and the general population. For Gaucher Disease, the Ashkenazi carrier rate is 1/18 vs 1/200 among the general public – (including Arab Jews). You have this weird notion of wanting to belong to the M/E. You do not. If you do, then why not every Eskimo, Hutu, Zulu, Nigerian?. You need to stop the deceit, look in the mirror and observe the person with very distinct European features reflected in the mirror. The reason for clinging to this silly notion is because without it, you are left empty-handed for good reasons to claim and colonize Palestine. We are now in the 21st century, the age of DNA and genetic science and you need to dispense with this most ludicrous claim of white Europeans originating from a land inhabited by people of color. Yes, we all belong to the human race, but for you to claim the most preposterous idea that the Nigerian, Yemeni, German, Chinese, Indian, Russian, Moroccan Jews are of the same race is just simply deceptive and self serving. You are either choose to be delusional or else there is something wrong with way your brain process common ordinary human facts and observation.
3- __ You: (By, “ancient Jews”, I meant, Canaanite Jews; the original Jews; in the land called by the Romans, ‘Palestine’. )
__ Me: Why would a European people have any ancestral history in Palestine? You have no shred of evidence, do you?
__ You: – I think the descendants of ancient Middle-Easterners could’ve gone to Europe; over a course of thousands of years. You could argue that it’s unlikely; but I don’t get why you consider it impossible.
__ Me: And you believe that it is by sheer coincidence that the Yemeni Jew resembles the Yemeni people and the Nigerian Jew resembles Nigerians and the Ethiopian Jew resembles Ethiopians and the Ashkenazi is indistinguishable from the Europeans and the Chinese Jew looks like the rest of the Chinese and Indian Jew looks Indian?
4- __ You: ( I believe there’s archaeological evidence of ancient Jewish kingdoms in Palestine.)
__ Me: But how is the Ashkenazi connected to the archaeology except as converts?
__ You: – I get that you can’t imagine the Ashkenazis not being simply converts. But you seem able to imagine only what you want there to have been. Why can’t you imagine that some Jews wandered into Eastern Europe? World history is full of migrations.
__ Me: Well, we can also wonder if the Eskimos just happen to wander there, right? You are no different than the rest of the deluded European Ashkenazis who would cling to being M/Easter. I am M-Eastern, and when I look at the Ashkenazi, I cannot distinguish him from the Russian or German or the French people. Can you?
5- __ You: (The fact that Jews believe they descend from exiles from ancient Palestine, proves nothing; but it’s still a fact, that they believe it.)
__ Me: That claim has consumed so many lives, caused so many wars, displaced millions of people from their land, gobbled up a chunk of Arab real estate and it is at the heart of world wars.
__ You: #NAME?
__ Me: That is exactly why this fraudulent claim of an alien European peoples’ claims to having origin in Arab Palestine must be demolished!
6- __ You: (I doubt that Palestine has ever been 100% anything.)
__ Me: But do you not believe that Palestine was 0% Ashkenazi till the stampede begun to colonize it?
__ You: – There likely was a sustained, small dribble of Ashkenazi religious Jews to the Holy Land. So what? Just because there have likely always been at least a few Jews there, doesn’t justify Zionist expropriation.
__ Me: Yea, just like Christian who visit the land. But why must the Ashkenazi decide to squat where is not wanted and the Christians just performs his religions rituals and goes back home to his country?
7- __ You: (I believe Jews have periodically been wanderers.)
__ Me: Which ‘Jews’? The Yemeni or Chinese or Nigerian or Iraqi or Russian or German Jews? What made them ‘wanderers’? True, the Ashkenazi were repeatedly expelled from their European places. Is that what you meant?
__ You: – I think Jews had a propensity to be wanderers, because their culture was a book (about wandering), so was portable, and didn’t depend on their remaining in any one particular place; so they had no reason not to wander. That probably gave them an advantage, that they were free to explore opportunities elsewhere.
__ Me: Pure and total nonsense! I asked you which Jews, did I not? I will ask you again: which Jews: Nigerian or Yemeni or Chinese or Indian or Zimbabwean or Ugandan pr Lithuanian?
8- __ You: (I certainly don’t believe they were genetically ‘pure’ anything.)
__ Me: But they were genetically NOT related to the Arabs Jews. 40 genetic diseases suffered by the Ashkenazi but not by the Arab Jews is more than sufficient evidence one needs to prove that there is no genetic relations between the two.
__ You: – I’m not a geneticist.
__ Me: See exhibit A below:
9- __ You: (For example, the Mongol invasions, likely involved quite a bit of rape.)
__ Me: Do you have any documented stats to prove your claim?
__ You: – No proof of rape by invading Mongols. Just a general supposition about the behavior of invading armies.
__ Me: In other words, you were simpy engaging in assumption, guessing?
10- __ You: (But, my ancestors considered themselves Jews, and perhaps also Europeans.)
__ Me: Religion and race are two different components. This is such a strange statement. You say “perhaps’ Europeans? What do you mean ‘ Jews’? You brain has been indoctrinated in this myth of ‘Jewish people’ that it seems it is hard for you to disassociate yourself from that indoctrination. The fact that you refer to ‘Jews’ as ‘Diaspora’ with capital D speaks
__ You: – I really don’t know what any of my ancestors thought–until my great-grandparents. I extrapolate back from them. As for the ‘Jewish People’ national idea, I don’t subscribe to it. Just because, at any given moment, there are some people on Earth who self-identify as, “Jew”, that doesn’t mean that they form a nation. We all begin as whatever we’re raised to identify. I don’t currently de-identify as Jew, because I discover the stories of some really great Jews, such as those who fought against the Political-Zionist abomination. Why wouldn’t I be proud to inherit the tradition of some truly awesome dudes? Not all Jews were jerks. As for the capital-D, ‘Diaspora’, I use it to mean: ‘Jews anywhere, except in the Jewish State’. But, you have a point: it doesn’t need to be capitalized; but if it wasn’t, I’d need to specify it, as, “the Jewish diaspora”–which is more key-strokes.
__ Me: Your answer is so bizarre! Why do you need two negatives in (I don’t currently de-identify as Jew). Why do you feel so apprehensive to just simply say: (I do currently identify as Jew)? You can and should identify as a ‘Jew’ just like Muslims and Christians do. But your claim to be a Jew also comes with a claim to Arab Palestine. That is where the problem is. I am from the region and I am here to tell you that you are welcome to visit Palestine as a tourist just like any other, but not to dwell on it or colonize it. Now are saying that “‘Jews anywhere, except in the Jewish State’ are in the “Diaspora”? What have Arab Palestine got to do with a German or Russian or Polish Jew? You seem not to recognize in your own writing that this ‘Diaspora’ business is another chain linking foreign Europeans to Palestine. Actually the German, American, Yemeni … Jews in Palestine are in the ‘diaspora’ as their homelands are Germany, US, Yemen, respectively. You need to cleanse your brain of this delusion.
11- __ You: ( I’ve no reason to believe they ever had any more interest in going to Palestine than I do.)
__ Me: Only because life in America feels good to you. But the minute it turns the other way, I have no doubt that you will be heading in the direction of stolen Arab-Palestine.
__ You: – Why would I head to Palestine, of all places on Earth? I’m currently living in a town with no synagogue. I’ve no desire to dwell in a Jewish ghetto.
__ Me: Synagogue or no Synagogue, your life in America has turned sweet, super sweet! The West has now embraced the Ashkenazi Jews that is really did not want in its midst and the reason and only reason is Palestine. If Palestine is decolonized and the Ashkeazis return home, the sweetness might overnight turn into bitterness. In other words, the West is now easy on its Jews as long as they are now Arab land and not in their own backyard.
12- __ You: (The ones who finally left Europe, went to America. As I’ve visited neither the Middle-East nor Eastern-Europe, I can’t comment on those facial types.)
__ Me: Let’s take Olmert and Amir Peretz. Who in the world has a problem identifying Olmert as a European and Peretz as non-European? You seem to want to avoid answering the simple fact that the Ashkenazi are completely indistinguishable form the rest of Europeans or Americans of European origin.
__ You: – When my sister and I were kids, we were completely befuddled by our parents ability, or at least readiness, to identify someone, by sight alone, as either Jew or Gentile. I’ve never needed to identify people’s backgrounds, by their facial type. And, I’ve no interest in learning to do so. You seem to have a skill that I lack. But I don’t see why I need it.
__ Me: Evasive, very evasive. Are you now telling me that Olmert looks M/Eastern and Amir Peretz looks European? About identifying someone as ‘Jewish’, it simply means recognizing the Ashkenazi features as there is no way to distinguish a Yemeni Jew from a Yemeni Muslim except for religious garb. Yes, indeed, most of the Ashkenazis are Evasive, very evasive! Are you now telling me that Olmert looks M/Eastern and Amir Peretz looks European? About identifying someone as ‘Jewish’, it simply means recognizing the Ashkenazi features of European Jews as there is no way to distinguish a Yemeni Jew from a Yemeni Muslim except for religious garb or a Nigerian Jew from a Nigerian Christian or Nigerian Muslims except for garb. Yes, indeed, most of the Ashkenazis are easily identifiable as Ashkenazis by their facial features.
13- __ You: (In the mirror, I see only a weird American.)
__ Me: But American is not a racial designation, is it? There Afro-American, Hispanic-Americans, Chinese-Americans. Your response is really a cope out. You too need to embrace your European origin, teach your people that there is no shame in being of European ancestry.
__ You: – It’s true that people are categorizable by bodily characteristics; but that’s a useless categorization, to me. I embrace whatever Eastern-European roots I can discover. My grandmother taught me to cook eggplant, by burning its skin off over a flame; and I recently found that same technique, in a Romanian cookbook. I love that stuff. But, ‘American’ is an attitude; a state of mind, which gets reflected in our facial expression. We all eventually get that look; wherever we’ve arrived from.
__ Me: Are you for real? Are you saying the Mexican, Afro, Euro Americans all have that ‘American look’? From your answers, it is not hard t detect that you are simply petrified to identity yourself as a European or someone whose origins are European. I do not know any Ashkeazi who would come out and say with pride that he is European. In fact, the Ashkenazis hate the word ‘European’ itself, they do not identity as ‘white’, either, but as white people form my region. BIZARRE!